(Mass dislikes time!)
Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.
That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.
You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another.
That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.
But it’s not a fact though? You can’t imagine up some fictional scenario and then just claim it’s a fact; words have meanings
Not only is China indisputably persecuting Uyghurs, but we have far more proof for the genocide in the Xinjiang province than we do for the one in Gaza. Millions of scholars who are not at all associated with either Adrian Zenz or Uyghur separatists agree that the Uyghur genocide is the deadliest, most important, and best documented atrocity of all time. If you need links to the evidence, I can give you as many links as you want.
But first, I need you to solve a CAPTCHA to make sure that you are not a robot.To prove that you are not a robot, enter the number of trees visible in the image below:
Hahaha, you got me in the first half
10·4 days agoThe image isn’t loading for me.
So here it is uploaded:
That still doesn’t change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
The only countries pushing this narrative are the “always the same map” imperial core countries, which just so happen to be largely the same ones supporting Israel’s genocide.
Almost no predominantly-Muslim country buys the Uyghur genocide narrative, because they know it’s bullshit, because they talked to the Uyghurs themselves.
https://twitter.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330 #HRC51 | Draft resolution A/HRC/51/L.6 on holding a debate on the situation of human rights in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of #China, was REJECTED.
- The Uyghur Human Rights Project is a product of the National Endowment for Democracy, which is the American government’s main regime change NGO.
- A Reddit AMA Claiming To Be A Uyghur Quickly Exposes A CIA Asset Slandering China
- The Xinjiang Genocide Allegations Are Unjustified
- Uyghur genocide allegations
- American Debunks All Major Western Propaganda on Uyghurs and Xinjiang
- US-Funded Uyghur Activists Train as Soldiers of Empire
- The blueprint of regime change operations How regime change happens in the 21st century with your consent
The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.
Much like how after China foiled their color revolution attempt in 1989, the CIA had to pivot to the “Tinyman Square Massacre” narrative.
Very much like that, and they’re still getting mileage out of it with no effort, because Lemmitors get an endorphin rush every time they do the CIA’s work for free, the brave defenders of freedom & democracy that they are 🤦♂️
Sources:
- china news propaganda site
- medium article from rando
- project syndicate link which is an op-ed site (not news)
- a wiki page from an incredibly biased group
- a youtube link…
- a site calling itself a news site, yet no actual credentials, but seems to be associated with China (Ajit Singh has written Chinese propaganda books)
- a substack link
This has to be the least compelling list of evidence one could provide, and yet you get upvotes because it looks like you’ve provided proof of something. All you’ve done is provide a lot of incredibly, seriously biased opinions with no actual facts at all.
Would you prefer something from America’s own fox news or New York Times?
No, neither. You’re making up a position and pretending like I believe that to make my argument look weak. I’m not the one posting shit sources.
You’re not posting any sources at all. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
What is an example of an axtually credible spurce in your opinion?
As opposed to all those unbiased sources you’ve provided, lol.
I’m absolutely not going to provide sources or even argue with anyone from .ml on an .ml community because it’s pointless. You all do not care about proper sourcing and think it’s even a detractor because it’s “western”. I’m pointing out the problems with the sources for all the other people that are observing that comment and being swayed, because it’s a bunch of baloney.
Disclaimer: not .ml.
Critisizing someone’s sources and then refusing to provide any other ones “because it’s pointless” seems a little hypocritical to me.
I’m pointing out the problems with the sources for all the other people that are observing that comment and being swayed, because it’s a bunch of baloney.
So we should trust your word over someone’s who has at least put in the effort to provide sources?
Look, you don’t need to prove anything, but if you’re gonna argue or act like you’re defending people from misinformation, then I’d expect to see more than just “don’t listen to that guy”. It’s not exactly easy finding objective information about various issues in China and filtering out all the American propaganda. Personally, I’d very much appreciate any links that don’t lead to obvious manipulation.
If someone claims to solve string theory and then provides shit sources there is never an obligation to provide sources that solve string theory. Pointing out sources are shit is part of science. I don’t need to provide a counter argument because that’s not the purpose of the conversation. I don’t need to provide proof of the alternative because the only thing I’m trying to accomplish is to stop this liar from spreading misinformation.
A lie can travel around the world before the truth takes a few steps. That’s exactly what that user is trying to do. Post as many lies as possible so that refuting them takes hours if not days if not months or years.
How can you know if the sources really are bad if it’s not obvious aftet reading? Do you just trust a random person’s words? In this case, you’re essentially arbitrarily picking one version over another.
The problem with ‘stopping lies’ is it requires effort, which not everyone may wish to dedicate. I’m by no means denouncing the other person for trying to stop misinformation (assuming that’s the case, since I still have no idea). However, it’s all in vain if they don’t bother to do anything to prove their point.
Anyone can post misinformation as sources, just as anyone can post that the sources are bad. Fundamentally there isn’t a whole lot of difference between the two. If you really feel the need to defend people from being misinformed, some better source or other form of proof, or at the very least a deeper explanation would go a long way.
So like
If someone claims there’s totally a genocide
Then provides shit sources…
🤔
You’re conflating “proper sourcing” with being western, that’s already an error, and second of all it’s the west that has been most prominently pushing the genocide theory. Of course it’s going to be contested by China. The validity of sources used by posts on YouTube and Medium aren’t in question because of where they are hosted, they are often hosted on these kinds of platforms because opposing western narratives gets you blacklisted.
If that were true then non western sources would have plenty of news articles, yet all ml users post are things directly from Russia or China or “alternative” “sources” like medium (which isn’t a source). There are plenty of regimes that do not align with anything America has to say, yet no news articles from them.
Not really true. We post sources from all over, especially groups like Al Mayadeen that post in English. If we post something in spanish from Granma, for example, people can’t read that.
Wow, I wonder why there aren’t any Western corporate media sources with a Media Bias/Fact Check seal of approval…
The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.
The new post-Trump/“post-truth” media literacy curricula won’t teach it to you either, because it was paid for and crafted by the US military-industrial complex: New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’.
This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.
The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.
- Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine
- Propaganda model
- Edward Bernays
- Walter Lippmann
- Council on Foreign Relations
- Powell Memorandum
- The Trilateral Commission’s report, The Crisis of Democracy
* I’ve criticized MBFC & Ad Fontes before:
Nobody said anything about MBFC. Good luck, like I said in another comment I’m not going to argue with anyone from .ml. I was pointing out the faults in your sources because they’re not proper sources no matter what region of the world you’re from.
“Waaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaah! I’m a little baby incapable of citing sources, I’m not gonna talk to you .ml demons.”
I trust OIC and Muslim countries more than I trust any Western source. It is borderline farcical for Western governments and media to pretend to care about the welfare of Muslims in China while directly or indirectly enabling the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Palestine and invasions and war crimes in many other countries as well as the discriminatory policies in their own countries.
You’re arguing with a guy that doesn’t want to change their mind. He literally sent me a video whose sources contradicted him and guess what happened when I pointed that to him? Never bothered to reply and he still uses that video as proof that he’s right.
As opposed to you people, who are totally open and eager to change your minds
Seeing as how I actually watched his video and looked at their sources and other sources and only after that did I reply? Yes. And even to this day I still leave room for doubt. I still think the truth is actually somewhere in the middle. Not you, tho. You’re convinced that what you believe is correct.
Not you, tho. You’re convinced that what you believe is correct.
Yeah, as opposed to believing what I believe is incorrect…
Do you even understand the concept of other minds?
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
If not reeducation, which method would you prefer China use to combat the foreign radical Wahhabism and terrorism spread by the CIA in Xinjiang for the purpose of regional destabilization and regime change?
We all know how the US chose to implement its own war on terror. Muslim majority countries in the Middle East support China’s method.
Vocational training and extraordinary rendition & torture at a black site are exactly the same. You fool. You absolute baffoon.
Removed by mod
Bro the CIA isn’t trying to regime change Ukraine, the people there are just legitimately fighting for their sovereignty!
-You in 2014, just before the coup
Bro you haven’t engaged with any of the material we’ve presented in this conversation.
Removed by mod
You forgot the /s
this post isn’t cheering on china, it’s shitting on the west’s hypocrisy.
also you might want to look up who funded the wahabis who groomed the terrorists that the crackdown is a response to.
You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another.
“Authoritarian state” is a bullshit category. Authoritarian states are just states insufficiently subservient to Washington. It’s no more or less coherent than “terrorist state,” which the US uses in the same way.
“Authoritarianism” is the contemporary word for “totalitarianism,” which is just an erudite-seming term for horseshoe theory, which is horseshit. Previously:
- ‘Horseshoe theory’ is nonsense – the far right and far left have little in common
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory#Academic_studies_and_criticism
- Funny thing about Hannah Arendt’s construction of “totalitarianism”: She came from a bourgeois family and so was unsurprisingly anti-communist, and she was funded & promoted by the CIA.
Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity Politics to Democratic Illusions and Fascism
One of the centerpieces of the cultural cold war was the Congress for Cultural Freedom (CCF), which was revealed in 1966 to be a CIA front. Hugh Wilford, who has researched the topic extensively, described the CCF as nothing short of one of the largest patrons of art and culture in the history of the world. Established in 1950, it promoted on the international scene the work of collaborationist academics such as Raymond Aron and Hannah Arendt over and against their Marxian rivals, including the likes of Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir.
I thought I’d blocked ml already. Guess I need to do that again.
How self absorbed do you have to be to announce that?
Blocking ml is a frequent topic of discussion, as it’s widely considered to be propaganda unconnected to reality.
“I guess I’ll block it now”
Proceeds to not block it
I’m getting to it dammit
Sure sure. I look forwards to many more future announcements that you’re totally going to block it for real this time.
“Blocking ml is a frequent topic of discussion, as it’s widely considered to be globe head propaganda unconnected to the flat earth reality.”
Widely considered unconnected to reality among people who believe that Ukraine is winning the war and there’s an invisible genocide in China. I wonder what Occam’s Razor says about this🤔
.ml simps so fucking hard for authoritarians in Russia and China?
To liberals, “simping so fucking hard” literally just means, "not believing literally every piece of propaganda that right wing western propaganda outlets pump out about them.
If they were old enough to be paying attention in 2002, they would be accusing anyone who didn’t believe Iraq had WMDs of “simping so fucking hard” for Saddam.
You don’t believe there are WMD? What are you some authoritarian simping tankie?
🤣 Their jabs are so far off the mark, but every time they think they’ve hit the bullseye. If they could see our fremdschämen faces…
"Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.
That still doesn’t change the fact that Iraq is building weapons of mass destruction to attack the USA.
You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another."
Seriously, how many times do you need to hear it before you western chauvanists realise it’s not about “good or bad”, it’s about trustworthy or untrustworthy.
Ironically Abrahamic religion’s influence feeds into liberalism’s good vs. evil worldview.
Philosophy professor Hans-Georg Moeller: If Morality Exists Everything Is Permitted
Yeah
Removed by mod
Genocide is bad. If your ideology prevents you from agreeing with that statement, you are a monster.
Nobody here is denying that genocide is bad, what’s in question is what the US Empire says is happening vs what is actually happening. The US Empire has lied before, such as the babies taken from incubators story or Iraq’s WMD, but it was only long after the dust had begun to settle in Iraq that the liberals started to agree with the leftists that the evidence was actually insufficient after all.
Genocide IS bad, but the “muslim genocide” in China is nothing but a CIA op, as usual
You are a CIA op.
Wow 10/10 lib response, so good
No u
The people that try to equate fake genocide with real genocide are like the school staff punishing bully and victim alike. They are enabling the abuses. Also it must be deeply insulting to the real victims in gaza.
Imagine dying in a “fake genocide”.
No need to resort to imagination with a real verifiable genocide.
Someone at the NYT gets a fatal papercut
We’re very butthurt about our failed color revolution, and we’re very concerned that we can’t even manage to make lemonade out of our lemon.
Westerners, every time:
Its only legal if you just want to steal their natural resources
Yeah like frig China. Why aren’t you killing them? Whats wrong with you? Clearly the most morally correct thing to do is exterminate them, what are you trying to hide?
The US liberates muslims (from the mortal coil) while China enslaves muslims (by making them part of the productive forces).
“Our genocides are the good genocides” thinking persisting this long is baffling. Even more disturbing is these people are in power.
Is it though? People hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. No one wants to believe that their privileges are predicated on suffering elsewhere.
Westerners in particularly have always been very “heads in the sand” when it comes to modern history but it’s not surprising. Every nation struggles with the darker aspects of their history.
Correct: https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/
Meanwhile I get nothing out of it but insults and the hope that a (very) few will begin their deprogramming journey, as I did soon after 9/11.
As long as you critically stan a state, it’s okay to support genocide. /s
That does appear to be the western liberal belief
Hot take:
The US has committed horrifying war crimes and crimes against humanity against Muslims and continues to do so.
And so does China
Its always fascinating to see the war between Nazis and Tankies fight over which imperial power is based, rather than demonstrating a working frontal lobe and damning both for their crimes.
And so does China
The only “evidence” of this comes from the empire and is demonstrably false
Eh, most people probably don’t brag about doing war crimes.
Idk man, this page has over 401 citations from various sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_China?wprov=sfla1
Edit: This also has a lot of citations ns from various sources too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia_in_China?wprov=sfla1
The 400 citations in question:
[1] Victims of Communism Memorial Association
[2] Burger Eagle Freedom Institute
[3] China Freedom NGO (Washington DC)
[4-399] Western State Television Station (retrieved in 2020)
[400] Literally the CIA
The article editors in question:
u/USA_STEM_Edgelord_USA_1990
u/TotallyNotAFed69
u/WhiteCisManInHis30s
Good job outing yourself as someone who can only read up to 3 lines before they have to vomit bullshit onto the internet.
Ah yes. Libopedia the pinnicle of (western) truth!
Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information, most especially do to the international collaboration efforts on it.
You can’t just dismiss a source on the basis that you don’t like it. You need to provide actual evidence that the source is untrustworthy
Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information
Yeah if you’re looking up wood joints and math theorems. Not if you’re trying to learn anything about politics or history that ties into the interests of the systems and institutions that filter the media allowed as valid citations.
You need to provide actual evidence that the source is untrustworthy
Do they ban the New York Times because they lied the country into every war it’s been in since McKinley?
And you’ve read zero of them.
Sounds like cope
Someone once put together a book titled, “One Hundred Authors Against Einstein.” Einstein dismissed the book with the quip, “Why one hundred? If I were really wrong, they’d only need one.”
Sounds like a colossal reach at best, and pathetic cope at worst.
You understand the colossal differences between multiple independent journalists researching and reporting on the same topic, and a large organized group of pseudointellectuals trying to disprove a single person based on vibes alone, right?
You seem to be very desperately, and pathetically holding onto a form of fallacy of composition:
No, I’m simply calling out a lazy gish gallop. It’s the same in both cases.
How many sources are listed on the Wikipedia page for Christianity? If I accept your logic as valid, it seems I’ll have to convert.
China not empire. Behehehehehhehehehehehhehehhe!
Please explain for the class what imperialism is in your view and how China fits that.
Skip to the nameca…
Oh wait. We are at the belittling flowchart. I do not know this one yet.
Let me grab popcorn.
Gotcha, so nothing.
Not only has China been an imperialist regional super power for the majority of its lo g history, but simply ask Taiwan, the Uyghurs, Tibet, Hong Kong, Vietnam or any of the various countries China is practicing neocolonialism in in Africa or Island nations
This is fanfiction. China isn’t practicing neocolonialism in Africa, it’s engaging in south-south trade that is actually helping African countries escape the trappings of western imperialism. Taiwan was invaded by the KMT when they lost the war, and took over the island. The Xinjiang and Tibet are both doing well and support the PRC, and Hong Kong is gradually doing better now that they aren’t under British colonial rule. Vietnam is a strong trade partner with China.
Listen, I’m sure there’s a very good reason why we have radically different policies towards Afghani Muslims and Uyghur Muslims, despite the fact they share a border and a litany of cultural practices.
lol seriously. Most obvious propaganda scam of all time. Libs fell hook line and sinker though.
When lemmy.lib sends its people, they’re not sending their best.
Unfortunately, they are.
So concerned that we bribed foreign terrorists to blow shit up in Xinjiang, forcing China to spend on education and job programs there.
These people, who don’t know shit about fuck, are absolutely sure that they already know everything that needs to be known, and that we don’t know shit about fuck.
And in twenty years they’ll say they knew it all along.
This is some next level racism.
Please elaborate: where’s the racism?
This has been the US playbook since before we were born, and funding, arming, and influencing Salafi jihadists in particular has been going on since at least the 1980s. Previously:
6 December 1993: Anti-Soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace
FAIR: Forgotten Coverage of Afghan ‘Freedom Fighters’ But the U.S. government and the American press have not always opposed Afghan extremists. During the 1980s, the Mujahiddin guerrilla groups battling Soviet occupation had key features in common with the Taliban. In many ways, the Mujahiddin groups acted as an incubator for the later rise of the Taliban in the 1990s.
Despite CIA denials of any direct Agency support for Bin Laden’s activities, a considerable body of circumstantial evidence suggests the contrary. During the 1980s, Bin Laden’s activities in Afghanistan closely paralleled those of the CIA. Bin Laden held accounts in the Bank for Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), the bank the CIA used to finance its own covert actions. Bin Laden worked especially closely with Hekmatyar—the CIA’s favored Mujahiddin commander. In 1989, the U.S. shipped high-powered sniper rifles to a Mujahiddin faction that included bin Laden, according to a former bin Laden aide.
Translation, we are very concerned because someone else is doing the killing, they took ur, joooobsss
No need to censor, you can say A on lemmy.
LAMBO /s
Well, they can’t let another country move into their game.
Valid meme but hopefully it doesn’t minimize the plight of Uyghurs in peoples minds.
Oh cool, you also gargle propaganda from an evangelical nutjob Adrian Zens and from the U.S State Department on it’s number-one global rival. Very analytical and socialist of you.
There is no “plight”, the U.N found nothing and reported nothing. Again and again, people like you do the work of the feds back in the 50s-60s.
Maybe next time read the comments first.
The only plight is the plight of a psyop
The west sanctioned xinjiang, making it harder to sell their stuff.
This is the real plight. The west always hurts people, regardless of what they say they do.
