If Ukraine enters peace talks now, have they gained anything or put their country in a better position since the original peace talks, which were sabotaged by Boris Johnson and British intelligence, over a year ago? Have they gained any significant territory since what was proposed then? Is their army in a stronger position? Are any gains since then worth the losses?
Just looking at it from a purely pragmatic and realpolitik perspective, I don’t see how anyone can argue that Ukraine has gained anything significant in this stalemate of a conflict. If they get similar results now, as what was on the table originally at the first peace talks, it means that their Western backers essentially sold a pipe dream to Ukraine that never materialised. Is the collective West ready to explain that to Ukraine, and the rest of the world? That they used Ukraine as a testbed for their weaponry against Russia, sold Ukraine a utopian fantasy that they’d be able to regain significant territory using Western weapons and tactics which never happened, and hundreds of tens to hundreds of thousands of people got killed or injured to accomplish very little.
havent they breach crimea lines? they are the offensive now so they could demand more.
They managed to partially capture a handful of villages in the security zone after three months. They are nowhere close to Crimea. The offensive had been a complete disaster and Russia has so far gained more territory in the north than Ukraine has in the south.
Please upvote this comment if you are a liberal and this headline gave you pause and maybe a nagging “are we the baddies?” moment of reflection
Not upvoting as a diehard commie, just to respect the vote. Would love to see an actual poll of libs on this
It would probably be a good thing if there can be an end to conscripts killing conscripts.
It really depends. If Russia gets to keep territory it conquered, keep children it kidnapped, not pay for the destruction and murder it wrought, see sanctions lifted and proceed to immediately re-arm and continue on its path of indoctrinating children into becoming fascist warriors for the next round, I wouldn’t call that peace.
Sure, but that’s an expectation of demilitarization by nuclear powers, not a cessation of warfare.
These Baltic and Polish dipshits should just be airdropped on to the frontlines if they want the war to continue so badly.
Without parachutes.
Yeah, along with the dipshits commenting from somewhere safe out in the West or whatever that never learn from history about appeasement that doesn’t work.
No one “wants the war to continue”. But “dipshits” from Poland and countries near Russia know that they will not stop there, and after Ukraine they’re next.
Hey, why don’t you go and sign up for the foreign legion instead of shitposting here while other people die.
Fears of peace talks
What kind of bullshit Orwellian headline is this? Peace is GOOD, stopping the bloodshed is GOOD. We WANT less people to die.
The fear is that there is pressure for peace talk conditions to be less than fair to Ukraine, that this would be little more than appeasement of Russia, like what happened with Czechoslovakia in the 1930s
Ukraine was in a far better position when US and UK sabotaged peace talks last March, and Ukrainian position continues to deteriorate. So what exactly do you think delaying negotiations more is going to accomplish?
The only reason I opened the article, “whatchu mean fear of peace talks?!”
Like I get it, Ukraine shouldn’t capitulate. But ending the bloodshed is a good thing, surely.
The issue is that we’ve already tried the whole peace thing before. Remember the Budapest Memorandum? The Minsk Protocol & Minsk II? The Partition & Friendship Treaties?
I feel like the heart of the issue is that Russia doesn’t want peace. If it did, we would not be here in the first place.
You mean the Minsk agreements Ukraine refused to implement for 8 years, and the west has now admitted were designed to buy time to arm Ukraine for the proxy war. Not really helping your case there bud.
…Ukraine refused to implement for 8 years, and the west has now admitted were designed to buy time to arm Ukraine for the proxy war
[citation needed]
can’t even be bothered to google? https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/22/ffci-d22.html
can’t even be bothered to google?
No, I’m invoking Hitchen’s Razor.
While I will concede the Minsk Agreement, there’s still the issue of the Partition Treaty, the Treaty of Friendship, and the Budapest Memorandum. All of which were meant to encode Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty.
Claiming there is no evidence for something that’s well documented is just flaunting your own ignorance. All of the treaties you mentioned were respected by Russia until US overthrew a democratically elected government in Ukraine in a violent coup. A fact that’s, once again, has been extensively documented in western media. It takes stunning amounts of intellectual dishonesty to ignore this and peddle your narrative.
To what end though? Freeze the border where it is now and give Russia another few years to build up force for round 3?
I suppose that’s up to Ukraine, right? They’re the ones fighting so it makes sense for them to decide what terms they’d be willing to accept.
So, you didn’t read the article? The fear is not about peace talks, it’s about support from the US forcing them while Ukraine is making progress.
But I thought Ukraine was a free and sovereign nation making its own decisions. You NAFO bots really need to get your story straight.
A real mask off moment there.
Fears of peace talks
Peace bad, war good!
Did I get that right?
Defending your home is good.
Not being dead is even better.
So you just surrender and don’t have a home anymore/die anyways?
“die anyways” ? how so ?
I’m sorry I don’t have the time or willpower to explain history to you.
What a pretentious thing to say.
Lol ok
I don’t believe this for one second. I haven’t heard anything from the Ukraine administration that would suggest in any way that they are interested in peace talks. In fact, their recent choice of putting a Crimean Tatar as the Minister of Defence suggests that they are serious about taking Crimea back from Russia. I hear nothing but absolute resolve by both the Weat and Ukraine to keep fighting until a Ukraine victory.
I hear nothing but absolute resolve by both the Weat and Ukraine to keep fighting until
a Ukraine victory.Until the last Ukrainian. That’s what I’ve heard too.
I know you people don’t consider Ukrainians actual humans with agency but they fight because they are forced to do so by Russians. And if they stopped fighting they would be eradicated by Russians. Whether the West wants them to resist Russia or not has no weight in that.
I’ve seen videos and articles that suggest that many Ukrainians fight because they are forced to do so by other Ukrainians. And what do you mean eradicated? Do you know of some secret extermination camp nobody else knows about?
Show proof of your bald-faced lie propagandist
It’s openly reported in western media ignoramus https://www.economist.com/europe/2023/02/26/ukraine-finds-stepping-up-mobilisation-is-not-so-easy
From your link:
Not all who get draft notices are actually inducted; sometimes the notices are simply a way to get every potential recruit on the books. Even for those who get one, there are ways of getting around it. There are legal exemptions for illness and disability—either of the draftee or of a dependant. Single parents and fathers with three or more children are off the hook as well. Students can defer service. Certain professions also receive what is known locally as bron, or protection from call-up.
The government has extended this to key workers in the energy, transport and agriculture sectors. Many IT staff have six-month exemptions. Alex, an IT professional who handles his company’s relations with the government, says the state understands how vital his sector has become to the war effort. “It’s one of the only areas of the economy still generating hard currency. Many of us are also working pro bono on military projects in AI, surveillance, counter-espionage and other classified technologies.”
From another economist article:
Ironically, though, Ukraine’s army is built on conscription as well. For years Ukrainian law has demanded 12 to 18 months of military service from Ukrainian men, even if many of them manage to postpone it through studies or parenthood (registering with a fake address is a popular trick to duck it entirely). The practice of conscription itself, like so much else about Ukraine, is a relic that it has tried to shed: when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, all its men had to complete at least three years of military service. Four of Ukraine’s last five elected presidents promised to abolish it. One succeeded in 2013, but it was reinstated the following year, after Russia began grabbing chunks of Ukrainian territory. Last month, just before the war started, Mr Zelensky proposed an end to conscription by early 2024.
Almost like it’s far more nuanced than “being forced to fight”. But you and your tanky buds will never admit that none of this would have to happen if Russia didn’t invade Ukraine in an unprovoked war of aggression
As to your buddy’s genocide denial, I’ll just leave this here
I love how you just keep peddling debunked nonsense here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8kt9RUpYqk
And no, it’s not more nuanced than being forced to fight, the regime in Ukraine is literally kidnapping people off the street and sending them to die on the front lines. Meanwhile, human garbage such as yourself keeps cheering that on. You are an utter scumbag.
Great, another Hexbear brigading thread. Hexbear needs to be defederated, it’s a bunch of fake communists spreading authoritarian propaganda.
cry ab it, oh wait you already are
