[All these points apply to sex and to gender, so for ease of reading, I’ll just discuss gender]
Gender-exclusive groups are common in many societies, such as men-only and women-only social clubs and casual activity groups like a men’s bowling group or a women’s reading circle.
Sometimes this is de-facto, but sometimes this is enforced by rules or expectations, treating the club as a safe space for airing issues people have with other genders, or avoiding perceived problems with other genders.
I came across this old comment in a garbage subreddit by accident when researching. The topic is Men’s Sheds:
“Here’s the thing. No reasonable person has an issue with women having their own women’s activity groups. The annoying part is that whenever men try to do something similar, that’s a problem. Women either want them banished or demand entry, EVERY time.”
I think their claim is nonsense, grossly exaggerated at best. I also know of many counterexamples of men trying to get into women-only groups (as an extreme case, the Ladies Lounge of the Mona art gallery in Australia was taken to court for sex discrimination, with the creator claiming they would circumvent the ruling by installing a toilet). But nonetheless, I can understand why they feel this way, patriarchal social relations change how most people see men-exclusive spaces vs. women-exclusive spaces.
But my response to their claim is that, I am reasonable and I do have an issue with any group setting up places which discriminate based on gender. These safe places can form as a legitimate rudimentary form of protection, yes, but they maintain and often even promote sexism, and should all be challenged and turned into something better which serves the same purpose.
Of course, I’m limited by my own experiences and perspective, so I’d love to hear your opinions on the topic.
Bonus video: “Why Do Conservative Shows All Look the Same? | Renegade Cut” - a discussion about fake man-caves and sexism.
Kind of a side note but I want to see peoples opinion. Do boys tend to make friends with boys and girls tend to make friends with girls because that is what is natural? Or is it due to the oppressive nature of our current time?
As a father of three boys. This is enforced far more by the mother’s of girls than anyone else.
My oldest made friends almost exclusively with girls before he was five. Without fail mother’s would move their girls away and toward other girls. This happened in a few situations, both structured and unstructured environments.
When it was dad’s with daughters, it was only about 1/4 of the time, and mums or dad’s with sons never did.
I have seen it the other way also, where boys were steered to other boys, but it was far less often.
I used to go to a men’s only yoga class, I was far more comfortable there than in a mixed class. The class was discontinued, not because of lack of interest… but because the instructor got pregnant, it never restarted. She was a great instructor very professional and targeted the exercises to men’s problem areas.
Men’s only spaces are important, as much as women’s spaces. Men’s mental health is often overlooked, and men’s spaces are an easy way for men to vent about shit that is bothering them.
Also “our current time” is a little strange, history it’s full of segregated spaces, even of just by social convention. Our current time is far more accepting of mixing than a lot of history.
That’s what interests me. Why is that best achieved in exclusively male groups? What would actually be required to empower men to vent in gender inclusice spaces?
I mean what’s really needed: Spaces without women, or spaces without toxic masculinity?
Sometimes men don’t fell comfortable expressing themselves with women around.
If a space is toxic, men don’t express themselves there either.
Space where men can properly express their feelings are extremely rare. Between the toxic masculinity and men feeling judged by women and other men.
I agree, but I wonder if it’s inevitable. Safe spaces for men would obviously have to be non-judgmental, but by women and men alike. In order to have safe spaces for men in the first place we’d need some kind of rules of conduct anyway. Explicitly or implicitly. And if those rules are in place it shouldn’t make a difference if the people upholding them are men or women.
In real life I feel the justification for exclusively male spaces is often sexist in nature (e.g. “women cannot be non-judgemental” or "they wouldn’t/couldn’t be supportive of men) or based in toxic masculinity (by reinforcing that men have a role to play in front of women, which makes it impossible to truly open up before them).
Obviously we all have learned and integrated these gender roles so much that even if we disagree with them on a cognitive level, it’s still a fact that we are restricted by them. So as long as we don’t have equality, men will probably in parts be held back by the idea of being vulnerable in front of women, even though it shouldn’t have to be this way. With that in mind maybe male only spaces could be a clutch until men get better at talking with women. I’m just wondering if we aren’t yet at a point where we can think of something better, and make a step in the right direction already - with gender inclusive safe spaces, that clearly support the right and the opportunity for men and women alike to express their feelings.
The latter and “oppressive” is a fully adequate choice of words. These gender-norms are enforced by punishment, ridicule, abuse and exclusion, often leading to latent trauma, emotional blunting and loss of empathy. It’s helps start the cycle of male violence early.
Really young kids don’t care and mingle freely. It’s a learned thing; the latter. Although “oppressive” might be a bit on the strong side.
Im not sure what isn’t oppressive about gender pay gap, domestic abuse/violence and generally treating females as inferior.