Quick, throw more money on the fire!
The problem is that Ukraine is given enough not to lose, but not enough to win. At this rate, Ukraine will depend on western hand-outs much longer than if the West fully committed to see Ukraine restore its borders.
That’s the point. The West doesn’t want the war to ever end.
Then it’s up to the people to demand more support from Ukraine.
Absurd. America has already given $75 billion in “assistance” to keep this war going, imagine if that had been spent on people who need it in America? And you want to spend even more than that??? Every bomb is food stolen from the mouth of a hungry child.
What is your plan than?
What should the west do?
Let me guess, you have no alternative that does not boil down to “Let Putin and people like him do what they want.”
Negotiate an end to the war. I’d support a UN monitored vote in the Donbass region and Crimea (and any other contested area) on whether they want to join Russia or stay with Ukraine.
Sorry, but as if. Russia is a UN veto power. And Russia would never accept UN troops sent by the West to oversee anything. And african nations won’t want to piss off Putin by agreeing to this. Putin wants his anti-NATO back and this war will only end with Putin thuroughly defeated.
Not to mention that such a vote would be a farce anyway. Russia has had enough time to kill, torture, intimidate or disappear enough people that such a vote could never be fair.
And as for the money spent on Ukraine, it’s but a cheap talking point to suggest that supporting Ukraine and supporting your own population are mutually exclusive. Not to mention believing that if the money wouldn’t have been spent on Ukraine, that your own people would’ve seen that money is pretty delusional. For starters, most of the support sent by the US is hardware. And the given value for that support is the replacement cost for the kit sent. However, most of the kit sent was due to be replaced anyways, so the actual cost for the US is much lower than the figure being thrown around.Negotiate an end to the war.
Russia refuses to give back the lands seized.
Now what to you do?
I’d support a UN monitored vote in the Donbass region and Crimea (and any other contested area) on whether they want to join Russia or stay with Ukraine.
Not an option the Ukrainian gov will accept. Nor should they.
When parts of the USA wanted to leave that was not response from the USA.
The problem is that Ukraine is given enough not to lose, but not enough to win.
The problem is that Ukraine is given what the West can afford to give, they haven’t got the industry to fight Russia’s war machine in a war of attrition anymore after deindustrialization and the shift to neoliberal policies. Sucks to suck, shouldn’t have shipped manufacturing to China to crush their domestic labor movement 😄
And what is wrong with Ukraine not just bashing its head into russian defenses and instead go for a slow-and-steady approach? They still have reserves to spare, word is Ukraine is rotating its troops on the front regularly. So as long as Ukraine can keep up the pressure and russia not being able to stop their slow advance, they will be successful eventually. Would another Kharkiv thrunder-run be preferable? Surely.
But russia is prepared this time. And instead of being all doom-and-gloom, the West could step up its commitment to see Ukraine win. Apart from artillery shell production, weapon manufacturers still see no increase in weapons procurement. It’s time for the West to let actions follow its words on support of Ukraine. As long as their words ring hollow, Putin only has to wait and eventually outpace dwindling western support.The problem of that approach is that winter is coming soon and battles will soon ground to a halt. Which will give Russians the time to build up their defensive layers again.
Spring offensive of 2024 will commence afterwards. And then the spring offensive of 2025, 2026, 2027…
Plus tanks work better in the winter and Russia has quite a few of them which are cheap and easy to deploy.
As far as I can tell, this prolifically posting account has literally never posted an article that wasn’t negative on Ukraine, and posts about 90% negative on the West in general. For whatever that’s worth.
Well I don’t believe you’re real either.
If this is a play on my username, I laughed.
And half the comments in this thread are from queermunist, who’s all for the “just let Russia have what it wants and everything will be great” side.
The flood of Rexiters did a lot to smother the tankie presence on the Lemmyverse, but it’s clearly still a strong undercurrent.
Eager to see what coping everyone switches to when it becomes obvious to Ukraine that the deal Russia offered in 2022 before the Kiev withdrawal was the best possible reality they would ever see again. Little Weimar on the Dnieper. No NATO, no EU, no Donbass, no Crimea.
Then again the epic bacon sirs will probably be given a new shiny thing in Asia or Africa to focus on.
You joined a platform founded and inhabited by Marxist Leninist and checks notes … expected them to leave. Wtf?
We joined a platform founded and inhabited by Marxist leninists and checks notes … Expected them to not support an authoritarian capitalist country. Is that really too much to ask?
No, I expected them to go hide in their little corner of it when the bulk of the population moving here turned out to reject their particular view on reality.
Whether they “founded” the platform is irrelevant, it’s an open platform and they’re going to be in the minority.
Edit: Oh, and since you switched the goalposts from tankies to “Marxist Leninists”, I figured I should point that out. I’m specifically talking about the people who think Russia’s full of awesome and manliness and crap like that, rather than being the kleptocratic mafia state basket case it actually is. “Marxist Lenninism” is just a word those people use to sound intellectual.
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In the past day I’ve been described as being “from” noncredibledefense and “from” datahoarder. I do happen to subscribe to both those communities, but I’m not “from” anywhere in particular. Those are just some of many subjects I’m interested in. It’s odd, this sort of community identification never seemed to come up on Reddit. And you personally certainly didn’t bring me here, I don’t know who you are.
Also, not sure why you’ve identified me as a “Liberal.” Haven’t voted for them in several elections now.
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