The USSR committed horrible atrocities but they weren’t as bad as the nazies, obviously. No idea why I have to clarify this, I never even mentioned the nazies.
I have no idea why ML always jump to double genocide when anyone mentiones bad things the soviets did.
An ML not knowing what double genocide theory is is equally unsurprising. It’s the claim that the USSR committed atrocities to a similar scale as the nazies. I never even mentioned the nazies.
Many gulags were forced labor camps, also known as slavery.
Yea, the first link was just how people felt like a while ago when a lot of ex soviet countries were still struggling over a decade ago. That would make sense too, if an economic union collapses your country is fucked for a while. Like if the EU collapsed it would have even more severe consequences and any poll would give similar results for decades to come.
I don’t know why they would vote for socialism suddenly during the votes for independence. If Russia couldn’t do that with 60 years of killing, imprisoning, slaving and deporting political dissidents, artists, scientists, gays, jews and people not ethnically russian than a referendum for independence ain’t gonna make socialism happen either. I guess giving people the ability to vote was rather new but yea, it didn’t make socialism happen either.
You mean the vote that was boycotted by 6 of the 15 soviet occupied countries due to how it was phrased among other things? There was no independence option in the referendum, just how should the USSR be preserved.
Also most of the Easter European countries voted to declare independence shortly after.
I was around 20 at the time and in one of the boycotting countries. We later had a vote for independence, I think the support was around 80% or 90%.
Except the bottom picture is Singapore…
Calling the USSR Marxist is an insult to Marxism. Especially what Stalin made it into. Hearing how people claim that was Marxism would have Marx rotating in his grave so bad it could generate power for the whole world.
Ah yes, you also said you need a central party control for socialism.
You said they had socialism, I said they didn’t. You didn’t prove anything. If you wanna go into how elections were run and how candidates were chosen then we can but the picture you provided was accurate for just a brief period in the USSR. I can’t remember if worker councils were dismantled during Lenin or Stalin but by the time they occupied Estonia they weren’t a thing. In the USSR the higher ups in the party controlled the means of production, they also controlled who people can vote for while making sure that vote didn’t change anything.
I did, you claimed that you only need to fight the bourgeoisie and practice central planning to be socialist which I absolutely disagreed with. Like I said you need democratic worker control for socialism.
Hah, I grew up in the soviet occupied Estonia, democracy did not exist and neither did socialism. Advocating for anarchist ideas also got you locked up. I know enough about countries dressing themselves up as socialist to not fall for it. Socialism does not exist without workers democratically controlling the means of production.
I’m guessing you aren’t an anarchist because that’s mostly about unjust hierarchies, not conflating the word authoritarian.
Socialism and capitalism is about who controls the means of production. In authoritarian countries that would usually be the state or ruling party making it no better than the bourgeoisie of a capitalist country and in socialist ones it would be the workers. I know of no country where the workers control the means of production. Workers having democratic control over the means of production is absolutely essential for socialism.
I need some evidence to believe that authoritarian nations kill and surpress anarchists less than others.
Also none of those nations offer socialism any more than anyone else.
You don’t need to side with any hegemony but defending countries that would and have killed anarchist movements makes you less of an anarchist than one that does defend any western power.
Ultimately advocating for anarchist ideals is more likely to work outside of authoritarian governments so I cannot understand how hexbear can defend those. But then again people vote against their interests all the time so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised.
I tried to understand why they were defending governments like in Russia, North Korea and China but got permabanned for sectarianism.
They aren’t like any other anarchist I know and I’m in a local anarchist group. Like no anarchist should ever be defending authoritarian governments.
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Yea, industrialization improved things in like every country that did it but saying the USSR was not imperialist is wild to me. Resources from the annexed territories were being shipped to Russia on a regular basis, literally one of the reasons that made the Holodomor so deadly in Ukraine while Russia itself was mostly spared. Smuggling was insanely common here in the Baltics to ensure the locals could keep what they make and not suffer from famines as well.
1924 is when Stalin took power, not when the USSR was founded. Put I guess it’s true that he improved the situation in Russia with imperialism to it’s neighbors so technically for Russia itself it was a pretty good ride still.
Claiming the USSR only sent fascists to gulags is ridiculous. Like a good example is my grandmother and her 6 kids, my mom included. The oldest kid was 10, a bit young for fascist. My grandmother and mom were the only survivors. My granduncle escaped that fate by hiding in the mines of kiviõli. Their crime was being jewish.
Also gay communities were regularly dubbed fascist for being gay here. Several Estonian writers and artists were sent to gulags as well. Jaan Kross for example was arrested by both the nazies and soviets and held in the same secret police building both used. Though he was later sent to a gulag where he was for 10 years.