I mean, the DNC supports genocide. Trump is worse, which is really a testament to how phenomally bad he is for just about everyone on the planet. I want progressive democrats on the ballot, but I’m not holding my breath. I’m still going to vote, and I’m going to vote for the least bad option.
chess moves implies control and voting for the lesser evil isn’t a strategic move; it’s just hoping that the piece you think you’re forced to move does the least amount of damage.
Not voting for any candidate because none of them are progressive enough perpetuates the same system. How are you helping by not voting for the lesser evil?
I believe you can make the case for either option (lesser evil or third party) and either is definitely better than not voting, but I’m of the view that voting is a negligible part of our political involvement that gets too much attention, organizing is a lot more necessary and effective, otherwise things will never improve
Absolutely this is a critical point. If you want better candidates, create them. Forge them and support them. Attend townhalls and demand answers from candidates. That’s the time to shape the race. Once you enter the voting booth, it’s far too late to try to fix everything with one choice.
I like the quote from Gandhi, “Whatever you do in life will be insignificant but it is very important that you do it…” I think that applies to voting. One vote may be insignificant, or it may be everything. You won’t know, and you may never know for sure. But if you don’t vote, it is definitely nothing.
Politics is a spectrum, and theoretically there is a candidate even for you that would still support genocide and also be progressive enough to earn your vote.
Edit: Yes, downvote me, but tell me who you voted for in the most recent election at any level, and I’ll point to the genocide they supported.
Edit 2: Lot of people telling me progressive candidates are on every ballot, but nobody has yet to name a single candidate. One person mentioned a party that fielded three total candidates nationwide in all races in the 2024 election, one of whom was a Presidential candidate that could not mathematically win because she wasn’t on enough ballots. Most Americans were unable to find her name on their ballot, and the overwhelming majority of Americans did not have any PSL representation on their ballots at any level.
Politics is a spectrum, and theoretically there is a candidate even for you that would still support genocide and also be progressive enough to earn your vote.
Theoretically there’s a progressive who supports genocide hard enough to get your vote.
I’m saying that I don’t believe your assertions that you’re a progressive because of all the simping for the genocidal you’re doing all over this thread.
There are some on some ballots, but you cannot fill out a ballot anywhere in America without casting a vote for a person who supports genocide. You can choose not to vote, but that’s not participating in the process.
To someone who isn’t American, I can understand how alarming and unfathomable this might seem, but I am telling you the truth. What you see on TV and social media is not representative of what most Americans experience at the ballot box.
Thats precisely what the DNC counts on when they ratfuck progressives. The only reason we got Biden to step down and Kamala to pick Walz was the DNC couldn’t delude themselves into thinking they could win. Once Kamala’s popularity spiked and they told themselves the left, black people, and/or women would do as they are told, they went back to business as usual.
We need to be screaming from now to 2028 that any candidate who does not support free healthcare, abolition of ICE, and zero weapons for Israel is unelectable.
We need to be screaming from now to 2028 that any candidate who does not support free healthcare, abolition of ICE, and zero weapons for Israel is unelectable.
The DNC does not care if their candidate is electable. They only care that their candidate is not a progressive.
The only reason Biden stepped down when he did was that the DNC wanted to avoid a primary they knew Kamala wouldn’t win. They waited until she was the only viable candidate. It wasn’t delusion, it was strategy. It was terrible strategy, but I also think that’s part of the strategy. We didn’t “get” Biden to step down. We failed to get rid of him soon enough for it to matter.
The problem is that there aren’t enough voters who support free healthcare, abolition of ICE, and zero weapons for Israel. We need leadership to make the argument for those policies, and those leaders are simply lacking. There are more every day, and I will fight with everything I have to support them, but they are going to keep losing for a while. Our fight is long, and we plant the trees that will shade our decendents when we are long buried. And in the meantime, there will be an election, and you will make a choice. Choose something you can live with, because it will have an impact on the world. If you choose not to participate, you are still equally responsible for the outcome.
there aren’t enough voters who support free healthcare, abolition of ICE, and zero weapons for Israel
Nah, that requires intentionally misleading polls. Ask someone on the street “Do you think healthcare should be free” or even “should every single american have healthcare” and you will get overwhelming agreement. To get people to disagree you have to do bullshit like “Do you want the government to take away your health insurance” or something. Same with abolition of ICE and weapons for Israel. The only people who want ICE coming to their neighborhood and dragging off their neighbors or Israel bombing brown people are never going to vote dem.
There are no voters who will vote for means-tested subsidies for insurance companies that you buy through 1 of 50 online marketplaces or through your employer, but won’t vote for free healthcare.
There is a shitton of voters who will vote for free healthcare, but will assume whatever compromised centrist solution the neolibs come up with will not help them.
“Do you think healthcare should be free?” is not the same question as “Do you care enough about free healthcare to vote for a candidate who supports it?” Voters are largely uninformed, unengaged, and only rarely do more than show up to vote if they bother to do that.
The number of people who will show up for free healthcare is greater than the number who will show up for complicated tax credits for PEL grant recipients who operate a business in an under-served neighborhood for 5 years and were born on a prime numbered date, and make between 20 and 40K/year and submit 12 pages of paperwork.
Hell when I was phone-banking for Biden in 2020, half the people I was contacted listed free healthcare and freeing the ICE camps as reasons they were going to vote.
They thought they were voting for progressive policy, the opposite of that happened. Further disengagement is expected result of not doing everything in your power to help your base.
I mean, the DNC supports genocide. Trump is worse, which is really a testament to how phenomally bad he is for just about everyone on the planet. I want progressive democrats on the ballot, but I’m not holding my breath. I’m still going to vote, and I’m going to vote for the least bad option.
@themeatbridge yep
voting is not a marriage proposal, it’s a chess move towards a better future.
I still want everyone at the DNC leadership to choke and die, soonest.
The expected move from progressives is always “forfeit.”
chess moves implies control and voting for the lesser evil isn’t a strategic move; it’s just hoping that the piece you think you’re forced to move does the least amount of damage.
@eldavi you likely don’t understand chess. Or what “strategic” means.
Stop gaslighting anyone who doesn’t immediately accept your pro-genocide-and-nothing-else-ever bullshit.
voting for any non-progressive candidate perpetuates this system that’s controlled by baby raping/eating/killing oligarchic billionaires.
Not voting for any candidate because none of them are progressive enough perpetuates the same system. How are you helping by not voting for the lesser evil?
I believe you can make the case for either option (lesser evil or third party) and either is definitely better than not voting, but I’m of the view that voting is a negligible part of our political involvement that gets too much attention, organizing is a lot more necessary and effective, otherwise things will never improve
Absolutely this is a critical point. If you want better candidates, create them. Forge them and support them. Attend townhalls and demand answers from candidates. That’s the time to shape the race. Once you enter the voting booth, it’s far too late to try to fix everything with one choice.
I like the quote from Gandhi, “Whatever you do in life will be insignificant but it is very important that you do it…” I think that applies to voting. One vote may be insignificant, or it may be everything. You won’t know, and you may never know for sure. But if you don’t vote, it is definitely nothing.
Explicitly describing genocide as “not progressive enough”
Politics is a spectrum, and theoretically there is a candidate even for you that would still support genocide and also be progressive enough to earn your vote.
Edit: Yes, downvote me, but tell me who you voted for in the most recent election at any level, and I’ll point to the genocide they supported.
Edit 2: Lot of people telling me progressive candidates are on every ballot, but nobody has yet to name a single candidate. One person mentioned a party that fielded three total candidates nationwide in all races in the 2024 election, one of whom was a Presidential candidate that could not mathematically win because she wasn’t on enough ballots. Most Americans were unable to find her name on their ballot, and the overwhelming majority of Americans did not have any PSL representation on their ballots at any level.
Theoretically there’s a progressive who supports genocide hard enough to get your vote.
What the fuck are you talking about?
I’m saying that I don’t believe your assertions that you’re a progressive because of all the simping for the genocidal you’re doing all over this thread.
No, there isn’t. What a fucking horrific thing to say.
You’re telling me you’ve never voted for a candidate that supports the current Israeli genocide? Are you not an American?
They probably mean that anyone supporting a genocide cannot be a progressive politician.
I’m not an American but even i know there were candidates there who did not supported genocide.
There are some on some ballots, but you cannot fill out a ballot anywhere in America without casting a vote for a person who supports genocide. You can choose not to vote, but that’s not participating in the process.
To someone who isn’t American, I can understand how alarming and unfathomable this might seem, but I am telling you the truth. What you see on TV and social media is not representative of what most Americans experience at the ballot box.
Thats precisely what the DNC counts on when they ratfuck progressives. The only reason we got Biden to step down and Kamala to pick Walz was the DNC couldn’t delude themselves into thinking they could win. Once Kamala’s popularity spiked and they told themselves the left, black people, and/or women would do as they are told, they went back to business as usual.
We need to be screaming from now to 2028 that any candidate who does not support free healthcare, abolition of ICE, and zero weapons for Israel is unelectable.
The DNC does not care if their candidate is electable. They only care that their candidate is not a progressive.
The only reason Biden stepped down when he did was that the DNC wanted to avoid a primary they knew Kamala wouldn’t win. They waited until she was the only viable candidate. It wasn’t delusion, it was strategy. It was terrible strategy, but I also think that’s part of the strategy. We didn’t “get” Biden to step down. We failed to get rid of him soon enough for it to matter.
The problem is that there aren’t enough voters who support free healthcare, abolition of ICE, and zero weapons for Israel. We need leadership to make the argument for those policies, and those leaders are simply lacking. There are more every day, and I will fight with everything I have to support them, but they are going to keep losing for a while. Our fight is long, and we plant the trees that will shade our decendents when we are long buried. And in the meantime, there will be an election, and you will make a choice. Choose something you can live with, because it will have an impact on the world. If you choose not to participate, you are still equally responsible for the outcome.
Nah, that requires intentionally misleading polls. Ask someone on the street “Do you think healthcare should be free” or even “should every single american have healthcare” and you will get overwhelming agreement. To get people to disagree you have to do bullshit like “Do you want the government to take away your health insurance” or something. Same with abolition of ICE and weapons for Israel. The only people who want ICE coming to their neighborhood and dragging off their neighbors or Israel bombing brown people are never going to vote dem.
There are no voters who will vote for means-tested subsidies for insurance companies that you buy through 1 of 50 online marketplaces or through your employer, but won’t vote for free healthcare.
There is a shitton of voters who will vote for free healthcare, but will assume whatever compromised centrist solution the neolibs come up with will not help them.
“Do you think healthcare should be free?” is not the same question as “Do you care enough about free healthcare to vote for a candidate who supports it?” Voters are largely uninformed, unengaged, and only rarely do more than show up to vote if they bother to do that.
The number of people who will show up for free healthcare is greater than the number who will show up for complicated tax credits for PEL grant recipients who operate a business in an under-served neighborhood for 5 years and were born on a prime numbered date, and make between 20 and 40K/year and submit 12 pages of paperwork.
Hell when I was phone-banking for Biden in 2020, half the people I was contacted listed free healthcare and freeing the ICE camps as reasons they were going to vote.
They thought they were voting for progressive policy, the opposite of that happened. Further disengagement is expected result of not doing everything in your power to help your base.
The DNC thinks its base is netanyahu and two cheneys. Well, one cheney now.