You’re really going to compare pedophiliac EuroAnglo-zionazi settler-colonialism, open-air concentration camps, wholesale murder and targeting of children, women and unarmed men, wholesale sexual violence (whether on the living or dead), land desecration, cultural erasure, etc… to a war on a country that still has active clubs and bars?
No you fucking moron and holocaust denier, I didn’t. I did the exact opposite in fact.
When someone who is not experiencing a genocide tries to wrap themselves in the victimhood of people actually being genocided, as you and your friend are, you are holocaust deniers because you’re diminishing the meaning of the word genocide by associating it with your cause.
Fascists like your friend and the nazis running Ukraine, like all fascists, have zero shame saying literally fucking anything. And in addition, any offense against a fascist is met with shrieking rage and indignance. So of course they say what Russia is doing is a genocide. They are fascists and they have no shame. Are you a fascist? Or are you just a credulous liberal that repeats what fascists say and goes along with them in every situation?
Your opinion on the situation in Ukraine put aside for a moment:
The person you replied to made an allegory about what is happening in Ukraine.
You said that is literally what is happening in Gaza.
You drew a direct line from a comment about Ukraine to being about Gaza, too.
Had your comment been something like “lol, no, Ukraine’s full of Nazis. This is literally what’s happening in Gaza though” then it would not have been possible to point to you as drawing the parallel. I do not agree with the parallel, belastend is not my “friend”, and I’d appreciate if you stopped fighting the ghostly liberal you mistook me for.
Moron and holocaust denier, good lord.
I’ll make my stance perfectly fucking clear: nobody should be persecuted or killed en masse, nobody should be invaded, nobody should be marginalised, made less than, othered, abused, tortured, bullied, made a victim of hate, made to live a life in suffering.
I’m not sure what your political stance is, frankly idc, but based on that last sentiment it steers too close to anti-warism, so I’ll just give you the benefit of the doubt this one time, maybe you’ll see what we see:
My meaning from my reply is that monolithizing the two issues with statements like “Both can be bad at the same time, actually!” is drawing a comparison, which is not only tone-deaf, but completely misses the point that @AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml made: that entire original comment of OP’s directly applies to Palestinians in Palestine. And it does, it absolutely does, and there’s no denying it does.
The difference here is in the direct applicability of things, sweeping statements like “both bad” especially in the context of Palestine only serve to trivialize issues, it doesn’t offer any specific insight.
It also helps their case that one’s a literal ongoing genocide on an indigenous population while having already been subjugated to 70+ years of ethnic cleansing as a result of Euro-Anglo settler-colonialism (which continues to this day) and the other’s a war the West kicked a hornet’s nest for that started in 2022 between bougies… There’s nothing wrong with sympathizing with the latter, there’s just something wrong with flattening multi-dimensional degrees of suffering and one degree of suffering all into one degree, as if they were on an even-playing field, so to speak. The other difference here is that you get, at best, tone-policed or at worst, silenced and/or jailed, for publicly sympathizing for the former.
And hey: they did not need to preface that Ukraine’s full of Nazis or something to that effect, I seriously don’t see how their point would be “more valid”, even if the prefacing statement was true. Needlessly tone policing like this, a tactic used by libs extensively to derail and dissuade anyone from basically saying anything, isn’t really okay at all…
I will address everything in your reply, but I want to preface it with something.
When I said “In fairness, they didn’t. The person they replied to did.” I was not expressing my agreement with the “both things can be bad” statement, I was simply pointing out that the first person to draw any connection or comparison at all between Ukraine and Palestine was @Anti. Purely from a standpoint of the words they used. I do not think they are comparable, but without any context of what @Anti thinks about the invasion of Ukraine it is just an objective truth that they were the first person to make a link between the two. Of course thereafter, the person you replied to made the “both things can be bad” point, but yeah. Maybe I’m just being autistic.
No disagreements at all with your 2nd paragraph, and that was indeed my reading of your initial response.
Fully on board with your 3rd paragraph.
Again, fully agree with your 4th paragraph.
And here at your 5th paragraph we arrive at where I have been misunderstood. @Anti absolutely wouldn’t have been “more valid” if they’d written it differently, I am not policing their tone, their point was succinct and true. My initial comment was not an implication that @Anti believed a “both things bad” argument, I was purely stating a fact about the words used. The first user to draw a comparison between the two situations was @Anti, purely in terms of the words used. Had they phrased it differently, they may not have been the first person to do so, and I wouldn’t have been able to make my tongue in cheek throwaway comment. This doesn’t mean to say that they should have phrased it differently, or that they were wrong, or that the “both bad” argument is right.
I hope we are both/all in understanding. And thanks for not spewing vitriol at me for making a poorly executed half-joke.
You’re really going to compare pedophiliac EuroAnglo-zionazi settler-colonialism, open-air concentration camps, wholesale murder and targeting of children, women and unarmed men, wholesale sexual violence (whether on the living or dead), land desecration, cultural erasure, etc… to a war on a country that still has active clubs and bars?
In fairness, they didn’t. The person they replied to did.
No you fucking moron and holocaust denier, I didn’t. I did the exact opposite in fact.
When someone who is not experiencing a genocide tries to wrap themselves in the victimhood of people actually being genocided, as you and your friend are, you are holocaust deniers because you’re diminishing the meaning of the word genocide by associating it with your cause.
Fascists like your friend and the nazis running Ukraine, like all fascists, have zero shame saying literally fucking anything. And in addition, any offense against a fascist is met with shrieking rage and indignance. So of course they say what Russia is doing is a genocide. They are fascists and they have no shame. Are you a fascist? Or are you just a credulous liberal that repeats what fascists say and goes along with them in every situation?
Your opinion on the situation in Ukraine put aside for a moment:
The person you replied to made an allegory about what is happening in Ukraine.
You said that is literally what is happening in Gaza.
You drew a direct line from a comment about Ukraine to being about Gaza, too.
Had your comment been something like “lol, no, Ukraine’s full of Nazis. This is literally what’s happening in Gaza though” then it would not have been possible to point to you as drawing the parallel. I do not agree with the parallel, belastend is not my “friend”, and I’d appreciate if you stopped fighting the ghostly liberal you mistook me for.
Moron and holocaust denier, good lord.
I’ll make my stance perfectly fucking clear: nobody should be persecuted or killed en masse, nobody should be invaded, nobody should be marginalised, made less than, othered, abused, tortured, bullied, made a victim of hate, made to live a life in suffering.
I’m not sure what your political stance is, frankly idc, but based on that last sentiment it steers too close to anti-warism, so I’ll just give you the benefit of the doubt this one time, maybe you’ll see what we see:
My meaning from my reply is that monolithizing the two issues with statements like “Both can be bad at the same time, actually!” is drawing a comparison, which is not only tone-deaf, but completely misses the point that @AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml made: that entire original comment of OP’s directly applies to Palestinians in Palestine. And it does, it absolutely does, and there’s no denying it does.
The difference here is in the direct applicability of things, sweeping statements like “both bad” especially in the context of Palestine only serve to trivialize issues, it doesn’t offer any specific insight.
It also helps their case that one’s a literal ongoing genocide on an indigenous population while having already been subjugated to 70+ years of ethnic cleansing as a result of Euro-Anglo settler-colonialism (which continues to this day) and the other’s a war the West kicked a hornet’s nest for that started in 2022 between bougies… There’s nothing wrong with sympathizing with the latter, there’s just something wrong with flattening multi-dimensional degrees of suffering and one degree of suffering all into one degree, as if they were on an even-playing field, so to speak. The other difference here is that you get, at best, tone-policed or at worst, silenced and/or jailed, for publicly sympathizing for the former.
And hey: they did not need to preface that Ukraine’s full of Nazis or something to that effect, I seriously don’t see how their point would be “more valid”, even if the prefacing statement was true. Needlessly tone policing like this, a tactic used by libs extensively to derail and dissuade anyone from basically saying anything, isn’t really okay at all…
I will address everything in your reply, but I want to preface it with something.
When I said “In fairness, they didn’t. The person they replied to did.” I was not expressing my agreement with the “both things can be bad” statement, I was simply pointing out that the first person to draw any connection or comparison at all between Ukraine and Palestine was @Anti. Purely from a standpoint of the words they used. I do not think they are comparable, but without any context of what @Anti thinks about the invasion of Ukraine it is just an objective truth that they were the first person to make a link between the two. Of course thereafter, the person you replied to made the “both things can be bad” point, but yeah. Maybe I’m just being autistic.
No disagreements at all with your 2nd paragraph, and that was indeed my reading of your initial response.
Fully on board with your 3rd paragraph.
Again, fully agree with your 4th paragraph.
And here at your 5th paragraph we arrive at where I have been misunderstood. @Anti absolutely wouldn’t have been “more valid” if they’d written it differently, I am not policing their tone, their point was succinct and true. My initial comment was not an implication that @Anti believed a “both things bad” argument, I was purely stating a fact about the words used. The first user to draw a comparison between the two situations was @Anti, purely in terms of the words used. Had they phrased it differently, they may not have been the first person to do so, and I wouldn’t have been able to make my tongue in cheek throwaway comment. This doesn’t mean to say that they should have phrased it differently, or that they were wrong, or that the “both bad” argument is right.
I hope we are both/all in understanding. And thanks for not spewing vitriol at me for making a poorly executed half-joke.