Democracy supporters have to win every single time, while the fascists only have to win once. This is not a sustainable situation. We have to do what is necessary in a way that’s a lot more permanent than just winning an election.
I think a big part of this is rural over representation. Not even talking the senate, but the house to be fair should allot 1 rep per the minimum pop of any state, which would give us about 573 reps and like 676 electors for president. Hell if we did it as the founders intended, one per like 60k people we’d have a house of 5.6k members.
Unfortunately the huge land owners want unequal representation, and they have a lot of power.
That requires carrying this energy past the election cycle, regardless of the differences we may have on opinion, and coming together in agreement.
Historically, the Left has been rather poor at banding together. We’re more likely to argue than get things done most of the time. So it’ll be an uphill battle for leaders of smaller groups across the Nation. First though, we need to make it past this hurdle.
Voting for Democrats isn’t even voting for the Left anymore. More Rlite.
It hasn’t been a left wing vote for a long time, if ever.
It’s still a choice that we should strive to utilize. Not doing so may mean not having that choice, or the illusion of one. I do agree though, it’s about time we shifted things back towards a better life for everyone.
The founders thought they inoculated us against tyranny in 1776.
They did, but you gotta get your booster shots every now and then.
“…The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusets: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen yard in order. I hope in god this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted.”
- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, Nov 13, 1787
Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them.
Good goddamn, Jefferson was wrong again. I bet this is what a lot of judges are thinking about when looking at J6 cases.
I also have this weird feeling that there was some assumption of gentleman’s decorum back then even with those one disagreed with.
I appreciate his “forgive them, educate them, and move on” ideal. As if surely, once they’ve learned how things are, they will calm down! I wish it were that way.
But I think he’d be (im/de)pressed with just how low the bar has fallen when it comes to civil human behavior, general education esp. in civic affairs, and practical reasoning. There is no line too far anymore. There is no punishment for violating foundational social contracts or civil discourse.
One half is constantly flabbergasted that the other half keeps flagrantly violating the power of their office and saying “So what? I’m winning.”
We’re just so far past the point of reason now.
Edit: Also remember, Jefferson wrote this long before the Civil War. I believe his point in “forgive them and move on” was optimistically more in the interest of preserving the young Republic at all costs, rather than letting it crumble from the inside with internal feuds. (As is the fate of many rebellions)
Considering we had things like fist fight, a near fatal beating with a cane, etc on the floor of congress back then, I don’t think much of their old timey decorum
I don’t think your assumption is accurate. They famously started shooting at a government because they taxed them a little more than they wanted to be taxed (to pay for a war we started).
They also had slaves. A lot of slaves. Maybe we shouldn’t accept their fight against tyranny at face value.
Also, if they’re so smart, then why are they dead?
They did a great job at that. It has lasted 248 years. But they also gave us a framework for updating our constitution and government, and that has been sorely neglected for a long time. The founders were wise enough to recognize that the system would need to change as times changed. What they didn’t seem to anticipate is the insane tribalism created by technologies that weren’t even a dream at the time, and how that tribalism would grind our government to a halt.
So anyways, I started
blastinteaching my loved ones how to safely build guillotines.Indeed, the first step would be to dump the Electoral College.
Preferably out the back of a C130 just off the coast of Florida.
An AC-130U. We can play a game of see how many times you can hit it with the side guns before it lands in the ocean.
you guys need to force a reform.
Huzzah!
That’s only going to happen if the side in favor of democracy is given a decisive victory. Squeaking out another win isn’t going to be enough.
Did Harris have any pro-democracy stuff in her platform, like ending FPTP or the Electoral College? Trump campaigned on bad election reforms like ID requirements and same-day voting.
Not really. The fascists won in Germany, yet they’re not currently fascist. Nothing is forever.
Fascism was defeated because of the Allies, led by the US, the country with the most powerful military in the world by a large margin. Who’s going to defeat the US if it goes full fascist?
It’s a good question that I don’t have the answer to, but I don’t think the USA would be able to continue funding a military 20x the expense of the next most powerful military while under authoritarian rule. We have the funds for such a military now because of a hundred different conditions that wouldn’t exist anymore under a fascist government.
Fascist governments always collapse eventually because of loyalty over competence, but the thought of the damage a powerful country like the US would do before that collapse is terrifying.
It is. Even just the economic damage that the world would suffer is horrifying.
I questioned if I should add more context, but people will suffer a lot of hardship if the global economy is flipped upside down. It’s not the rich assholes I worry about, it’s the common person who will struggle to find a job or buy milk.
I mean, Russia has been a fascist country for 30 years now and they haven’t collapsed
The US spends 3.4% of GDP in defence. Israel is at 5.3%. Also the US only spends a bit more then 3x what China spends and well US products are more expensive. So the US can probably fund its military for quite some time, without too many problems and right wingers love to do it, to bomb the shit out of people.
80% of Nazi casualties happened on the eastern front by the Communists. But yeah, the Soviet Union no longer exists, Russia has fallen to fascism, and now the US has too. The world is fucked.
I can’t disagree.
Some appreciation for the Hezbollah please, they know that and they don’t care
The EU will … oh wait, nevermind
There was never any democracy here to save, and no way to make it sustainable without tearing down the constitution and starting over, and no way to hold a new constitutional convention that wouldn’t be poisoned by money and power from the start.
You’re not completely wrong. There are many aspects of our system that are deeplh undemocratic: the way that the donor class gatekeeps who is able to run, the way politicians serve lobbyists and donors over the public will, and the way that oligarchs own 95% of our news media all create an environment where the interests of the people are not represented by our government
thats exactly why voting is not a solution.
So what, at you going to start the
frenchUS revolution? That seems like a extreme idea that probably won’t end well.The US is a democracy. There is no threat outside of the fake information spread by US adversaries. Even if the worse president is elected there still little danger because of the balance of power.
Don’t believe me? Look at the past. The supreme court and congress has put the executive branch in its place before. There is not more danger now than there was centuries ago. The US system is far from perfect but it is well proven.
I hope you are right, but excuse me for having doubts. Both Congress and SCOTUS is much more partisan than it was in the past. SCOTUS’s ruling on presidential immunity is a direct example, eroding the checks and balances within the Constitution. McConnell’s behavior and vote during the Jan 6th Impeachment trial is a second example. Trump’s first term in 2016 started with him having no idea what he was doing, so he depended on establishment Republicans who would act as the adults in the room. That term ended with him having fired all of them, and with an attempted coup to stay in power. So far there have been no repercussions to him doing so. So yeah, excuse me for being worried about a potential “dictator on day one” who wants to deport millions of “illegals”, would send the military against his political opponents who he has labeled the “enemy within”, and to completely purge career public servants for loyalists (are you looking forward to Hershal Walker managing our National Missile Defense?).
There is not more danger now than there was centuries ago
The way you describe American history as “centuries” like we’re the Roman Empire or Egypt when we’ve only got 2.5 centuries to choose from.
Being a continuation of England more or less, you’ve got more. Especially since those democratic traditions were pretty English in the beginning.
Fair but my point still stands. We’ve been here a long time and though much worse times. (The US civil war comes to mind)
(The US civil war comes to mind)
I mean hey you’re right, we’re still here…but we’d really REALLY like to prevent a second one of those…From the reviews I’ve read it wasn’t a fun time for pretty much anybody involved.
There is no chance of a second civil war. The current “crisis” is artificial and brought on by the media.
The supreme court and congress has put the executive branch in its place before.
The SC betrayed democracy with Citizens United and again when they gave Trump immunity for his countless crimes while in office. Don’t forget that the SC openly take bribes from billionaires.
The revolution will not be hosted on the fediverse.
RIP democracy :(
Yeah seems like that was it for the US. Have fun living in Gilead.
Ngl probably going to try to leave for good
Get the process started now. Don’t wait.
deleted by creator
Please pick another place then here to go. We have enough Americans and your problems.
The Americans that want nothing to do with Trump are the ones you want trying to immigrate to your country. Use your brain before you speak. You sound exactly like a republican talking about Mexicans.
The ones who wanted something to do with Kamala aren’t wanted either. The parties are so far right, that most Dem voters would probably support our right wing in my country.
Id say its more akin to not wanting to take in those Russians who were fleeing conscription at the start of the war.
No I was talking about how we have a housing crisis and people are freezing to death on the streets, and lets be fair even the “ones who want nothing to do with trump” are still way right of center in a global sense.
Please go someplace warm instead.
I assume you’re Canadian. This is a problem across North America. Almost nowhere is safe now.
The construction industry scaled way back in 2008, and it never really scaled back up in North America. We’re not building enough to keep pace with population growth and to replace aging homes.
We need to build, not blame each other.
There are more than enough houses for the global homeless population overall. It’s the borders and high rents that are keeping them on the streets, not prospective immigrants.
I’m lucky enough to have dual EU nation citizenship from my childhood. Going to be digging through my childhood paperwork in case I need it.
Well, this aged quickly.
I’d make a Biden old joke here but my heart just isn’t in it.
Hubris. Democrats lose because characters like RBG and President Biden simply could not fathom that stepping aside was ALWAYS what they should have done.
These miserable fucking dinosaurs have gambled away the good intentions, hopes, and stability of the entire nation because their internal mantra was that they are our political saviors, while everyone under 50 was full-throated screaming that they needed to step aside.
Fuck all you geriatric, foot on the gas, oblivious, incompetent fucks. If (big if) we ever regain our Democracy, the first thing on the agenda should be AGE CAPS for all public offices. Elderly fucking hubris has doomed us to more misery.
Democrats lose because characters like RBG and President Biden simply could not fathom that stepping aside was ALWAYS what they should have done.
Lol, dude the guy that won the election is the oldest person to ever run for president in the history of the country, and a sitting Democratic president stepped aside due to public pressure for younger leadership, but yeah the concept of gerontocracy is what did them in. 🙄
Kyrsten Sinema is in her 40s, Bernie Sanders is in his 80s.
Age is not the factor here.
Literally the oldest president-elect in American history, but keep acting like age matters.
It’s attitude. It’s playing by the rules or bending them. Republicans figured out the cheat codes…they can bend the rules and win, or at the very least not lose. Because you can’t, honestly, compete with that. It’s impossible. Lies are far easier to create than they are to refute.
So either Dems have to go low, and lower the bar further, bend the rules more, and be just as guilty of breaking democracy as the GOP…or they can play clean and lose. There is no winning for the Democrats, and there is no losing for the Republicans. They found the cheat codes.
What’s more, they got seized control of the anti-cheat (SCOTUS) 4 years ago. Stubbornness is a part of it, sure…RBG was too stubborn to leave at an opportune time…but let’s not kid ourselves over GOP hypocrisy when it came time to fill her seat, and let’s not consider whether or not Trump is stubborn.
Republicans can do no wrong, but Democrats have to be perfect.
So either Dems have to go low, and lower the bar further, bend the rules more, and be just as guilty of breaking democracy
If you were elected to do X, and the rules get in the way, it’s antidemocratic to let them stop you.
Every time the democrats used the parliamentarian or the villain of the week or the republicans or norms or rules they themselves set in the senate as an excuse to do what their voters want (and their donors don’t want), they are breaking democracy.
Democrats don’t have to be perfect, they have to be effective. Republicans are effective, but only to do bad things. Democrats do manage to be effective sometimes, but only to do bad things, such as when Biden went around congress to keep arms shipments flowing to Israel.
You are embracing fascism as long as it’s your guys.
That’s the problem.
There’s no winning. Democrats embrace fascism, everyone loses. Democrats play by the rules, Democrats lose.
It’s not for lack of trying. Congress has been too split for too long, Republicans care more about open-carrying to committee meetings than to get anything actually done. They get to make the Democrats look bad by dragging their heels and voting no on anything they bring up. And that makes them heroes, somehow.
No, fascism isn’t when you break rules to be effective in government.
Would you call FDR a fascist?
Republicans care more about open-carrying to committee meetings than to get anything actually done
So go around them. Did you learn nothing from Obama giving the republicans half of the discretionary budget to appeal to their better nature, which the republicans voted against anyway? Or the compromised republican healthcare plan, Obamacare? West wing-brained libs claimed this was a stroke of genius, because everyone would see how civil and reasonable the dems were by reaching across the aisle.
And then the dems got blown the fuck out in 2010 because republicans saw their representatives fighting for them, and dem voters saw their representatives unilaterally passing republican policy despite having a super majority in the house and senate.
Age caps are good.
A rating voting system would be good too.
But I don’t think there won’t be younger people with the same kind of hubris.
I do not trust Americans to “do their own research”. I’ve seen how that has gone in the past. Too many Americans do their own research while scrolling Facebook from the toilet.
“do their own research”
That’s redneck for “I found someone that agrees with me on the Facebook”.
Research requires a critical mind. Think of a person you know that has average intelligence, 50% of people are more stupid than that.
And I’m not saying that stupidity is solely an issue for the republican electorate, I’m just saying “do your own research” is an unrealistic expectation.
People need to be engaged with.
More to the point, people need to not be told they’re stupid for not already understanding everything there is to know about the theory you’re peddling by a person who has taken some pains to avoid explaining any aspect of that theory.
Average lemmyml user
Satan himself could’ve posted that and he would still be right. Rather than being busy shitting on people for being the wrong kind of people who is right, you should shit on a people voting actual, literal Nazis ans facists into power.
Welp, that’s a wrap. We reelected Trump. I’m floored.
Hello floored, I am to say it lightly “disappointed”
As a trans person, it’s a bit more than light for me
Yeah, really hope you can figure something out. We both know you are not safe.
We both know you are not safe.
Don’t know if this is sympathy or if you’re out front of their door in a bush right now.
Hey, Nick Cage is an icon.
“I’M A VAMPIRE! I’M A VAMPIRE!”
truly remarkable cinematic masterpieces that he’s created over the years.
Yeah that was great. Truly the actor most suited for these times.
Four years ago we gave it a stay of execution. Until we fully purge the fascist and focus government to actually serve the people, we are going to keep finding ourselves in chaos, until China beats us to and at everything.
Yeah, a Trump victory scares me, but what scares me more is the more competent fascist that comes next. The Democrats can’t keep waiting for the Republicans to, “come to their senses.” The material conditions of the working class need to improve, or fascist populism will take in the absence of economic populism.
No other fascist has the cult of personality that trump does. If we can rid ourselves of this scourge, it will cause a reckoning and reset among the conservatives. I hope.
I doubt that, but it would be nice if you’re right.
It’s crazy how the global powers have handed China so much power as a result of their insatiable greed. China was hardly a concern 40 years ago, but 4 decades of manufacturing and stealing literally everyone’s IP have given them resources they didn’t have access to before.
China didn’t have to steal anything, the west handed them all of our trade and engineering secrets on a silver platter just to boost their profit margins.
Well yes, under contract that they don’t copy it, but that’s not how China works.
Twenty years ago they were still basically nothing.
Democratic party is fucking useless. We will never be free unless we rid ourselves of legalized corruption.
Poor take. Truthfully, the people want hate. That’s what trump ran on and promised.
This isn’t about policy or likeability or whatever. This is what people want and they proved it. Stop blaming the Democrat party and blame what this country and its people are instead.
Are you kidding? The DNC circumvented the entire primary process to give us ANOTHER “anointed one” and, again, possibly the worst candidate possible to create the coalition that has always been Democrats’ bread-and-butter. They even had Hillary go down to FL to lecture voters, while Bill went to Michigan to preach to Muslim communities about why the war in Israel is right. It’s a fucking lampoon of strategy.
Every single DNC “elite” should retire from politics, today. They’re losers, and losers lose. Because they never learn from their mistakes, which is what is required to win.
I’m sorry, since when is circumventing primary process worse than literally trying to steal an election? You want the perfect Democrat to run, while the other side is running a joke.
Let’s not kid ourselves, the reason Democrats lost was because of economy and voter apathy. Otherwise, we wouldn’t see Democrats lose control of all branches of the government. No matter what strategies they adopted, it wouldn’t have worked.
She was already a VP and our country still has inflation. People are idiots and blame it on Democrats.
I mean, it’s likely both. Apathy towards hate is still pretty bad imo, and hate is the Republican party platform. Also just saying, the economy needs some inflation and I think we’re around 3% right now, which economists agree is ideal? Not an expert there tho
They are elite. Not in quotes. The fact that they remain an elite and will remain an elite under Trump shows us that they are not losers and they don’t lose.
They didn’t lose control over DNC, that’s what they care about, perpetual real power over half the politics in one big country, not temporary and limited power over all of it.
In this case they have also shown Trump and anybody else that they are a very convenient opposition, that should remain as it is. It’s a win.
But you’re the guys who flew to the Moon, invented nukes and the Internet. You’ll think of something.
If I’m following, we should… use the Internet to nuke the moon?
Or send nukes from the Moon to silence the Internet, it was a mistake
Now. I’m no nuclysicist, but can we not nuke the earth, please? All my stuff is there. ☹️
We have to nuke something
Hate and simple answers. Trump will “fix inflation” and “bring jobs back”, what could be better? Don’t ask how or what it will cost.
He didn’t say he preferred trump, he said the Democrats are useless.
Which they are; they couldn’t defeat an orange windbag with transparent aspirations of autocracy.
This kind of take is why we’re stupid.
I’m sorry we failed you Bernie.
Democracy ? In US? lol US is a Plutocracy
Oligarchy.
Monarchy
Coming Soon™
No is really isn’t
Creating uncertainty is what the Russian influencing campaigns aim to do. The US is as strong as ever and there is no reason to worry at all. We have the balance of powers for a reason.
Look up Viktor Orban and how he successfully dismantled Democracy in Hungary. The plan has already been laid out, and it’s being followed precisely.
Seriously – the parallels in that journey are shockingly similar.
The US is as weak as ever as we have a stacked system due to Republicans following the same playbook, and slowly tipping the scales over the time using gerrymandering and whatever they can manage to pull off, any time they can manage to pull it off. We’re seeing less and less people responsible for more and more power. Our supreme court has ruled that the president is immune from prosecution, etc.
There are plenty of additional examples, but the only way you’re arguing what you’re arguing is if you haven’t been paying attention. If you want more, feel free to look up Project 2025
I have looked it up and I think it was BS.
Also they said the same thing about Biden and we are still here.
Well that’s plenty of proof that you didn’t read anything about Viktor Orban at all. There was nothing about my previous reply that had anything to do with biden - not a single parallel at all. Thanks for taking the mask off. Have a great day.
Next you’ll tell us Putin’s Russia is as strong as ever
Russia is still a threat especially in the cyberspace. We are now in the age of cyber warfare where nations attack and try to influence each other.
Oligarchs have all the power now
I wonder how quickly will the US progress from Elon Musk prancing around on stage to Trump Jack Ma-ing him, or if Bloomberg will commit suicide by six shots to the back of the head.
The golden age of the US oligarchy has been this past period. Under fascism, the causal relationship between having power and money reverses.
what are you even talking about? Rich people are last on a long list of scapegoats
Look at Russia’s oligarchs. Hell, look at Hungary.
There was this one wealthy guy bankrolling Orbán’s campaigns, one of the wealthiest people in Hungary. He got into an argument with Orbán publicly. Today he’s neither wealthy, nor living in Hungary.
The people will not turn on rich people. I’m saying rich people are used to be controlling politics, but in a Russian style system, rich people are controlled BY politics, not the other way around.
He’s still alive and no longer in hungary? so like rich people might move to their vacation estate for a year or two? this is just ordinary rich people stuff except instead of doing it for a tax cut they’re doing it because they publicly disagreed. Its theater. The whole point is to protect the money piles. It took russia like 20 years to start fussing about rich people that left the country
Imagine Murdoch arguing with Trump, trying to bankroll another party to rein him in, with it ending in him selling all his news outlets and retiring.
The point is that money doesn’t get you political power in this system.
Imagine because that’s not even remotely how it works.
Not in the US, not yet.
In a Russian style society, money means jack shit against actual power.
WDYM, Hitler was pretty friendly with German oligarchy. No suiciding them or something, their relationships were pretty chill, having fun together, going to countryside, going to each other with families, having coffee.
It depends if Vance can place a rollerskate at the top of the White House steps before that happens.
Now? I wasn’t aware they ever didn’t.
It’s more like all pretense is gone now. Before, there was this veneer of legitimacy. Now, it’s straight up fascism. It’s a matter of image projection.
More like the oligarchy now have 99% of the power rather than 98%.
The issue is that we believe we have a free democracy when the only power we have is to put an X in a box every few years. The system isn’t broken, it’s working as it’s designed to.
The issue is that we believe we have a free democracy when the only power we have is to put an X in a box every few years.
Right.
Except they’ve always had all the power. The money gets what the money wants.
True.
But now more of the hurdles will be removed. Gotta make that wealth extraction more efficient 📈🥴
Can’t let those poor and middle class people hold onto any of their money.That’s not true, we had a good run from the forties until I was born in the eighties. A whole forty years of some amount of power!
do you understand how much of the civil rights movement has happened since the eighties?
we’ve made them make concessions before. we’ve won before. we could win again.
and you… you have no idea how badly i wish i believed what i just said.
Yeah I guess before the full weight of the citizens united decision killed what was left we eaked out a bit of stuff.
Voting is like breathing.
Every election is the most important one of yopur life.
Sorry we let you down, Bernie, there are just too many shitheads now.
I get why people say you “have to” vote against someone in a First Past The Post voting system. What I don’t get is the inaction from the democratic party on changing the voting system between elections.
I wish the democrats had one tenth the urgency they claim to have. Democracy is one election away from falling… wouldn’t you want multiple chances to defeat the republicans every election?
Democrats are so full of themselves, they won’t accept that they might have to step out of the way to prevent the republicans from ruining this country. This fight is greater then the democratic party. They should start acting like it by pushing to get rid of FPTP voting in the states they control.
What I don’t get is the inaction from the democratic party on changing the voting system between elections.
-
The Democrats didn’t secure a large enough majority in previous elections to overcome Republican resistance to changing things like FPTP voting or the electoral college.
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There is a lot of contention within the Democratic party (at the federal level at least) as it shifts further towards the right in an effort to remain in power. Getting rid of FPTP voting would make it harder for centrist/right leaning Democrats to remain in power.
Several states have switched to RCV for some of their elections, and progress has been slow, but it’s being made. If you want to see more, elect people that prioritize implementing better voting systems.
right leaning Democrats
all Democrat party members are right leaning
Bernie is
aleft-leaningDemocratand opposes FPTP. I’m glad he got re-elected!Edit: I am wrong
Bernie is not a Democrat.
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Democrats are so full of themselves, they won’t accept that they might have to step out of the way to prevent the republicans from ruining this country
you mean like biden did?
don’t make me put on the mittens
